Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey guys, I'm placing my first LMI order.... I already have chisels, sharpening stones and I'm planning on ordering a Lie Nielson block plane. I work in a model shop so I have access to most common shop tools. I have about another $100 to spend at LMI..
I was thinking of getting a spokeshave, they have 2, a curved and a flat one. What is your preference? what's the different applications?

I'm ordering the O'Brien classical kit along with the Hauser plans....

I don't know which spokeshaves they sell, but I prefer flat in general. Especially for guitar applications. I think spokeshaves are tricky to get a hang of, but they're what Robbie uses to shape necks in the courses, and the LMI price isn't bad at all.

What do you have to measure with? When you order your block plane, grab their 6" rule for $3, too (we'll also use this with your sharpening). Robbie works in millimeter, so try to get a few good steel rules with mm. A meter rule would be nice as well as a shorter one that's easier to move around the top and back.

Be sure to save some coin for a humidity solution for your shop. Acoustic guitars in the construction phase are VERY unforgiving of building outside of a dedicated RH (relative humidity) range that's suitable for where you are and where your resulting instruments may end up.

Things to consider having are something to do wet-bulb testing with (lots on this in the OLF if you search the forum), a hygrometer that can be calibrated and forget about the digitals, they all suck...., and what ever it takes to get your shop properly sealed to either hold humidity or ward it off again depending on where you are located. For me this includes a dedicated humidifier for my shop(s) (or two....), a dehumidifier for when it's warm and humid, and of course the measurement stuff to know what the RH really is in real time. I also installed vapor barriers, heating and AC, etc.

This can be a difficult and expensive endeavor, preparing a shop for instrument building but the alternative is cracked instruments, instruments that can't be set-up without being way too sensitive to RH changes making them a moving target so-to-speak to set-up, and of course the heartbreak of gifted instruments or personal instruments being ready for the fire pit in only a few years....

It's a hassle but very much required or it will bite any of us in short order.

PS: Your new and expensive tools will love stable RH too.... no rusting!!!

Thanks James! I also work in millimeters here in the shop and we have plenty of measuring tools.... I'll be sure to pick up the rule if it's going to help with the sharpening.

Great points Hesh...humidity control is something I've been putting on the back burner, which I know I shouldn't....
My shop is in Newport Beach Ca. 2 blocks from the beach, so humidity will be high but not extreme. I'm going to look into getting a reliable hygrometer (without breaking the bank) and see how humid it gets. LMI has one, but it's around $150....

If you're looking for a great spokeshave, Google Dave's Shaves. Beautiful wood shaves that work brilliantly. Get the small rounded one. I guarantee you won't regret it.

Dave mainly serves the Windsor chair making community, and they live and die by their spoke shaves.

Steve

Or you can make your own by buying for 40$
Veritas® Hardware Kits for Wooden Spokeshaves from Lee Valley.
You can not buy a better spoke shave than that.

_________________
Michael F Smith
Goat Rock Ukulele
http://goatrockukulele.com

I use the flat "Kunz light spokeshave" from here http://www.diefenbacher.com/Spokeshaves.htm
I also have the round bottom one, but have never been able to get it to do anything useful. I'd hoped to use it in the heel area, but the 3/4" violin knife from LMI is much more effective.

The "compact dozuki saw" from the handsaws page on that site is also excellent.

If you don't have a scraper (and burnisher to sharpen it), that's one of my most used tools. This carbide burnisher is by far the best, because it never rusts http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=32643&cat=1,310,41070&ap=1

A straight edge is very hard to live without, and a long, accurate measuring device is very nice to have as well. Kill two birds with one relatively inexpensive stone with a 36" graduated iGaging straightedge http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CFAQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FiGaging-Premium-36-Steel-Straightedge%2Fdp%2FB005G8HEIW&ei=_W__VKj3HoygNrfbgCg&usg=AFQjCNHAMJ0kavpKA94_tkAin3YgeTtmQw&sig2=QVi0pZN-DtYrvP4G1q2qbg
It is in inches, but 64ths are smaller than 1/2mm so it may be worth the effort of converting values.

And Hesh's comment on humidity is most certainly important. When you get your soundboard cut out, you can use the offcuts to make a better hygrometer than any of those digital hunks of junk. Just glue two strips of spruce together, one long grain and the other cross grain, and sand it thin and flexible, and attach one end of it to a base of some sort (two little blocks of wood glued to mine). My numbers aren't right, but after watching it for a couple years, I don't need numbers to know when it's safe to brace. Even if you buy a different kind, make one of these. It only takes a few minutes and it's more reliable than anything else, and visible from a distance.


Bracing in high humidity is a death sentence for guitars. They have to be babysat every winter from then on or the soundboard sprouts cracks all over. Even if you rehydrate it and glue them, it still needs babysat or it will sprout new cracks elsewhere. I only brace in the winter now, but since we're just heading into summer, you'll need some way to dry yours. A hot box is one way to deal with high humidity. I've been known to use the oven on occasion, though you do have to be careful not to overheat it, and repeat the procedure for every round of braces.

Great info!!

When I'm ordering from LMI and Stew Mac I try to think of the things I can only get from them. Really you can get a lot of things from a lot of places, but they are really good at certain things. Like LMI white glue if that is what you are going to use. When I first started using hide glue I picked some up from Woodcraft. It smelled bad and in all my experimenting I don't think it quite dried hard enough. It certainly didn't behave like what I had read. I picked up some from LMI knowing what they are selling is intended for luthiers and it worked like a charm. Now I know what I should expect from the item.

So that is my long winded glue example, but there are other items like:
Nut files. You don't need them yet, but you will. This is a good item to add one to each order just to make the shipping worth while.
Fret dressing files
String spacing rules
Fret slotting templates and rulers
Truss Rods
Inlay materials
Headstock veneers
Wood

If this is your first guitar there are things you wont realize you need until you need them. I have tools I bought early on that I've never worked into my building style. I wish I had spent that cash on some fretting tools or some nut files. Or the stew mac vise. The list never ends.

I here ya, the reason I'm only looking at LMI right now is because I got some nice gift certificates from my lovely family

You have a good family and some tough choices ahead.

Good luck,

John

I bought a kit from them years ago and realized during the build it would take me about $2K in special tools to make that kit turn out right. By then I was well into planning guitars 2, 3, 4 . . . .

Enjoy the addiction as it may become one of the few hobbies that can almost pay for itself.

Yeah, LMI has great hide glue. Sadly, the white glue is gone Replaced by their new yellow glue, which I haven't tried yet.

Binding tape is another thing to buy from them. And possibly finishing materials, depending on what you plan to use.

Do you have a plan on how to accurately drill the holes for the tuners? LMI does have a jig for it, though fairly pricey for a block of steel with a few holes in it...

Oh, and get the 2mm brad point drill bit. I use mine constantly, and you'll specifically need it for the string holes in the bridge tie block.

Thanks! This is all GREAT input! As far as the tuner peg jig, I was planning on making one myself. I have an old bridgeport mill in my shop that's going to come I'm handy! I haven't placed the order, but based on what everyone is recommending I'm going to modify the list and go with more of the smaller specialty tools.
Feel like a kid in a candy store that wants everything in sight!!!

Raul, a couple more thoughts to ordering from either StewMac or LMI. Try to be efficient with shipping - put off your order as long as possible to get it shipped in one box. If you are going to order something that is long (fretwire, kerfing, binding...) think about maximizing that box - two pieces of binding in a 36 inch box with a lot of packing material doesn't make much sense.

I tend to buy mostly wood products from LMI and mostly tools and hardware from StewMac but that's just me. LMI's shop services are great - since I lost the ability to have wood thicknessed locally I have been sending tops and backs to LMI for sanding (pretty expensive shipping both ways however).

If you are ordering the serviced classical you won't need a spoke shave at this point - the neck should be preshaped. I have a flat spoke shave (from Grizzly) but I don't use it much - do most of my neck shaping with a band saw, small planes and rasps. BTW, I'm pretty sure the tuner holes are drilled in the kit neck too (I built one of their Hauser kits a few years ago - here is a thread that I did for a now defunct kit guitar forum

http://www.kitguitarsforum.com/archives ... 86_0_6_0_C

Minimum hand tools to build a kit include a couple of chisels, a small plane, a gauged saw (probably 0.010) plus a bunch of clamps. You'll need good measuring tools (machinist rule, feeler gauges, long straightedge) as well as a few special lutherie tools - nut files, a fret crowning file, fretting hammer or press. Main power tools include a small router and special bits for binding, a cordless drill motor. A belt sander, drill press and band saw are all handy but you won't need them for a kit. You'll want to build some sort of solera or workboard or maybe a body mold (most classicals are built on a workboard). Be thinking about how you want to finish it - I used rattle cans of nitro (StewMac) for my first few but if I was doing another classical I would French polish it.

Edit to add, I just remembered that my kit just had billets of spruce for the braces - I needed to rip them to size on a band saw. Check your kit to see what you get. The LMI kit wizard lets you customize it all you want - if there are operations you want to do (or don't want to buy the tools for) you can have them make that change.

I have used these Lee Valley Contour Planes and they have worked very nicely. Unfortunately, it appears they have been discontinued. Maybe you could find them or something like it somewhere else...

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.a ... 50230&ap=1

_________________
Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

The contour planes can be bought from chinese sellers on e- bay for abt 18 $ us I really like them . Sorry no link

Thanks for your advice. I'm getting my kit unserviced. So I'll be carving out my neck.
They have a small back saw with 3 blades for $16 and a fret saw for $30, I was going to pick them both up. Well I be all set with those saws? Prices seem good, I'm assuming the quality is good too....

[quote="guitarradTJ
Thanks for your advice. I'm getting my kit unserviced. So I'll be carving out my neck.
They have a small back saw with 3 blades for $16 and a fret saw for $30, I was going to pick them both up. Well I be all set with those saws? Prices seem good, I'm assuming the quality is good too....[/quote]

OK, if you are getting an unserviced kit that adds a lot of things to your shopping list. Obviously carving the neck, plus routing the slots in the head and drilling the tuner holes. I build a lot of slot heads and have made some pretty simple jigs for doing that with a router and drill press. You will also want to somehow make some templates for your neck shape (make a copy of your plans and cut it up to make various jigs and templates). I assume you are going to miter your fretboard - you'll need to come up with some sort of miter box and very accurate layout (I still buy my fretboards preslotted - I make all different scale length instruments and have never bothered to make a universal miter box). Your fret saw should match the tang size of your fretwire.

I'm assuming your plates will be sanded to the correct thickness - if not have LMI do it for you. Finding a cabinet shop that can sand to these tolerances can be hard. You'll need to glue the top and bottom plates together and inlay the rosette. An accurate circle cutter for a Dremel will do that for you or you may be able to figure out how to use your mill.

Bending the sides will either require a hot pipe or some sort of fancy bending machine. I bought a Fox bender for my 5th build, a hot pipe will be fine for your first and I still use mine for odds and ends. I would also say that if you are building an unserviced kit a band saw becomes pretty important - mine is a basic 12 inch Craftsman that I picked up at a yard sale. Careful setup and it works fine for everything on a guitar.

If you don't already have it, pick up a copy of Cumpiano and Natelson's book - they go through the step by step process of building a classical and a steel string - it will supplement the dvd nicely. Good luck, have fun, report back.

First rule of thumb is......a $100 that is just no fun at all. I try to keep the order as large as possible as it spreads the cost of shipping out. What you don't want to do is spend $15 to ship a $100 worth of wood/tools. And believe me there will be a lot of oh I need that now moments.

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